Our expert today is Jean Ginzburg from Ginball Digital Marketing. She’s been doing digital marketing for 11 years. She started her own company and helped small to medium-sized businesses to grow using Digital Marketing. She recently published a new book and was number one on Amazon’s best seller list.
Listen as she shares her very rewarding experience: Seeing Businesses grow and strive.
In this interview, you will learn:
Links mentioned in the podcast:
Speaker 1: Are you thinking of leaving corporate, but too afraid to make the move? Have you already escaped corporate but are finding it hard to run your dream business? Are you wasting valuable time by attempting to figure challenges out on your own? We have created a podcast for corporate escapees running their own business.
This is the Corporate Escapees podcast by Build Live Give. We bring you firsthand experiences of guests going through many of the struggles you face each and every day as a corporate escapee. We get real with no corporate BS, and now over to your host Paul Higgins.
Paul Higgins: Welcome to BLG experts. Where we’re a community of corporate escapees helping each other to build a dream business, and during that journey we come through a lot of challenges. And some of those challenges faced we get global experts, like the guest is going to be introducing in a moment onto the show, to help our community to rapidly grow their business. And it’s all based off the fiverapid growth drivers. So if you go buildlivegive.com/roadmap and that will also be in the show notes, you can get what those are but today in particular we’re going to focus on the Rapid Growth Driver number two, which is called Ideal Client. And we’ve got a global expert on today’s show to talk about it. So hername is Jean Ginzburg from Ginball Digital Marketing and she’s going to take us through some of the most common challenges and solutions around finding your ideal client which as I said it’s number two in our framework and that gets absolutely critical.
So what I’ll do now is I’ll hand you over to Jean. So Jean welcome to the podcast.
Jean Ginzburg: Thank you so much, I’m very excited to be here and I too I’m a corporate escapee. I was in the corporate world five years ago. I decided to quit my job and decided to start my own business so I am very familiar with what all that’s about.
Paul Higgins: Yeah well done, I know it’s – It took me 10 years to do that and it takes many …And probably many listening to this are just out of their journey so well done for you for making that step, it’s great that you’re contributing to the world in the way that you are.
Jean Ginzburg: Well, thank you very much yeah. Thank you for having me as a guest, and I can talk a little bit about myself. I know that sounds kind of … but bom baster but I’ll say a few words. So I just kind of introduce myself. I am Jean Ginzburg, and I am a digital marketing expert. I’ve been doing digital marketing for 11 years and over the last five years as I mentioned, I started my own company and we work with small to medium-sized companies and help them grow their businesses using digital marketing. I would call it a digital marketing consultancy is what I founded and it’s just a very rewarding experience for me, and I love seeing businesses grow and strive so that’s what I’ve been up to and I also just recently published a new book, which is called “Win new customers. How to attract, connect and convert more prospects into customers in 60 days using digital marketing.” And it was number one on Amazon bestseller so …
Paul Higgins: Congratulations, well done.
Jean Ginzburg: Thank you very much it’s been a busy last 12 months here for me, but the book has been just an amazing experience and I wanted to share what I’ve been doing with my private clients over the last several years and I thought there’s no point in keeping it all to myself. A lot of people can benefit from what I know and not make the same mistakes that I made over the last several years. So I thought it would make sense for me to put it all into a little book, it’s actually only 85 pages and share the knowledge that I- And the experience that I’ve had so that way you can just take that knowledge instead of trial and error like the way I did it.
Paul Higgins: Brilliant! Just on that ‘cause a lot of community have … What do I say, everyone’s got a book in them but not many release it and I think our community is very much like that, I’m like that myself. So what was the key thing that sort of got you past that hurdle of releasing that book, finally doing it 11 years? I’m assuming it took you 10 or whatever to decide to release the book. What got you across the line?
Jean Ginzburg: Funny enough it took me only about a year to come up with the idea that I wanted to release a book and then the following … So I think this is about 2016 I started talking to people that I know and current colleagues and peers in my digital marketing group that I was like, I think I’d like to write a book soon, eventually at that point didn’t really have a solid plan for it, but I knew that in my mind I wanted to write a book and it took about a year just to think about it. It took about four months to actually write the book. I started last May, so right now beginning of 2018 and I started in May of 2017. And really what I think the kind of the starter line for me as what I like to say, I met somebody who was a coach who helps people like myself, entrepreneurs, write books like non-fiction books, something about a very specific topic. So mine is about digital marketing and he helped me with this process and I think just for me it was like, okay, I think it makes sense. It’s going with the flow, like I met someone who can help me and I just pushed through it. Obviously I did all of the work myself, he kind of just walked me through as being a coach, but I went back, I wrote all of the actual chapters. I had my editor go through them. I went through them of course several times. The one thing I would say, the one little secret I would share with your audiences is that one of the easier ways to write a book is not by actually writing it, like sitting in front of your computer and having a blank Word page in front of you. My recommendation would be to first outline the book. So let’s say you want to have 10 chapters in your book, you want to outline what’s the name of the first chapter? Maybe something like five bullet points that you want to talk about in each chapter.
So do that first and then what you do is you speak your book, or you speak your chapter into a recording device, your iPhone or any other recording device, and then 60 minutes is typically the length of the chapter. And then what you do is you get it transcribed, you can get them described for like a dollar a minute. There might be platforms out there that would allow you to do that and that’s the basis of the foundation of your work. Obviously you have to go back through and get it edited by a professional and you have to probably go through it several times but that is my little trick.
Paul Higgins: Brilliant. That’s great. I think that’s a great tip and, if you don’t mind me asking, roughly how much did it cost from conception, the coach to through, roughly as a ball package. I’m sure a lot of listeners are saying look I’d love to get a coach and I’d love to do it the way you’re doing it, but that might be a little bit outside on my budget. So if you can just give people a guide on that?
Jean Ginzburg: Absolutely. I will be honest, the coach that I had, we did a work trade. I helped him with his digital marketing and he helped me with the book writing and the Amazon piece of it so I don’t know exactly what it would have cost me if I were to actually get his services and pay for them directly. The other piece of it is that I did obviously the marketing all myself so I didn’t have to pay for a marketing person to do it, so those are the two caveats that I will have to put into the price before I tell you what I actually spent on it. So I spent probably about 2000 US dollars on it that included my editor which was about 700 US dollars. I thought it was pretty inexpensive but again I did all my marketing myself, I came up with all of the strategies, I executed on all of them so again it might be a little bit different for the individuals who are listening who are not digital marketing experts and have to hire someone out to do the digital marketing or the marketing for them.
Paul Higgins: Brilliant, that’s fantastic! And ideal client, so obviously when you were writing the book you had your ideal clients, so to take us through what you see as some of the key challenges the people have when they’re defining their ideal client.
Jean Ginzburg: Absolutely, so one of the chapters in my book is all about the ideal client, the target market because one of the things that I find when I engage with clients of my own is that everybody really wants to do the marketing and they want to just jump head first and get some more clients but what I find is that a lot of times they don’t really know who those clients should be or are, and so it becomes difficult to do the market when you’re not sure who the ideal target market is because then all the messaging, all of the marketing materials that you go creating, might not be for the right market. So it’s extremely I’d say one of the most important things is to identify who your target market is because you might have an amazing ad, really great copy, super cool video that you all put together but if it’s all for the wrong market then this is all in vain and no matter how great it is, it will not work. I’ve seen it before.
I just can’t stress enough how important I feel that identifying your target market is, before you really get into the digital marketing. So were going to talk a lot about that piece today. The ‘how to identify who your target market is.’ I would say the challenges that I have found as I mentioned just now, you might be creating your messages, your Facebook ads or whatever but you’re just not getting the sales for example because the problem could be you’re not identifying your target market or maybe you’re creating content but again getting little or no attention or perhaps you’re posting your content on social media but getting little or no engagement. So, some of these are some of the challenges I’ve seen in general let’s say Facebook groups or even with my own clients that I’ve taken on. We want to of course address that and we want to make sure that in the future, we don’t have that kind of problem so one of the main ways on how to address the problem is to identify of course your ideal target market. I would say we can start off with the very easy things like age, gender, geolocation, household income, so we can identify the demographic data and I think that’s a good start but it is not the end of this. This is just the beginning and a lot of times I feel like oh, I can just identify businesses might say identify what the age is the gender, where they live, and I’m good to go. But that’s not it at all, this is just the start of the beginning of how we want to move forward and identify our ideal target market.
Paul Higgins: Sorry Jean just on that, often as part of our second, which is the ideal client. I’ll ask people who their ideal client and they’ll give me an answer and I’ll say look, on rough calculation I think that could be a half billion people. [crosstalk 00:11:38] and they’re like what do you mean? You’ve just given me such a generic answer, and I think you’re targeting about half a billion people. So how can we get it that you’re actually targeting a 1000 people? So how can you be so prescriptive that there’s a thousand people, you had to get a 1000 people in a room and you had to individually invite each of them, how would you describe the people you’d want in that room? And I think that then brings it from something that’s nice, big and esoteric into something that is more tangible. What are your thoughts or comments when I’ve gone through that as a methodology we use?
Jean Ginzburg: I absolutely agree with that. One of the common mistakes I see is that business owners think that yeah, the broader I go the best it is. It’s actually quite the opposite. You want to niche down as much as you can and get that right message in front of the right people and you don’t want to be doing it to half a billion people. You want to be doing it to close to more in the range of 1000 people instead of half a billion, so absolutely agree with you.
Paul Higgins: Yeah and I think that’s a temptation where you can reach a massive audience but I heard someone on a podcast yesterday saying that they had millions of fans and now they’ve sort of basically gone back to just getting calls like rather like core quality of really passionate fans that are actually engaged, listening, watching their material, and actually doing something then the divine metrics of having a lot of people. Now I’m sure you hear that a lot but what sort of your …
Have you got an example where that happened with you consulting to one of your clients?
Jean Ginzburg: Where we started off and they were very broad and then we narrowed it down?
Paul Higgins: Yeah.
Jean Ginzburg: Oh yeah absolutely. And I think that happens- I would say that’s pretty much happened to most of the clients that I am engaged with, it’s that when I first came in and engaged with them, their ideal target market was pretty broad and so going through these solutions that I’m going through with you now, and the first being identifying your age and gender and geo location’s household income. This is a first step in the worksheet that I do with all of my clients and then we really narrow it down and so the next step I can kind of go through the worksheet is we also identify psychographic. So pain points, challenges, values and goals. And it’s extremely important to identify the pain points and challenges and frustrations, because part of why we maybe have a product or service is that we’re trying to solve a problem for a perspective customer or client so they might have a problem or a challenge or a pain point, and the idea is, our service or product will solve it for them. So it’s important to identify those pain points and challenges because if you can include that into your marketing materials, then it makes it a lot easier for them to connect with you and understand, hey this company, this person, this expert, this consultant or whatever understands that I’m having this challenge, and it seems like they can solve it for me with their product or service. So, step two is really getting into the psychographics.
Paul Higgins: I think it’s really sound advice but a lot of people say well, how do I do that? And I’m not quite sure if you’re just about to go into that but often time people reject their own pain points, fears et cetera. Having getting real comments from real clients or perspective clients and also their language. What have you found useful to be able to get past that?
Jean Ginzburg: Absolutely so I say, take the guess work out of it. Yes a lot of times, I’d say very often I work with business owners and they guess and rely on hunches and say I think that my target market is XYZ and their problems are ABC. Well, the thing is we want to rely on data and not on hunches or guesses because the data is really what’s going to speak, it’s going to speak for itself. And so the way to do that, the way to understand what is beyond again the gender and the age and the geolocation and really understanding what are their challenges and pain points is to survey your current customers. So there’s a number of ways you can do that. You can do that through emails, or if you have already a customer list then it is pretty easy to create a survey and then send it out.
One of the ways I always have my clients do this, is also I have them get on the phone and talk to, I’d say at least 20 customers who have purchased their products or service in the past, and I actually ask them to do both. I ask my clients to do both like get on the phone with customers who you think will give you raving reviews but just get on the phone with customers who maybe have bought from you but were not very happy. And the reason for that is we want to identify why did these customers purchase? What were they like before they purchased this product or service? And then what were they like after? Because these again are important pieces to put into your marketing materials when you’re trying to draw in more perspective clients.
Paul Higgins: I think that makes perfect sense. Look, I know a lot of people might be listening to this and like I’m struggling to get open rates up on emails anyway, and that’s when I’m trying to get people to be customers. How do I encourage people to actually first open my emails but secondly actually answer a survey? What incentive or how can I get them to be more engaged with those surveys?
Jean Ginzburg: Absolutely that is a good point. Unfortunately, email open rates have been on a downward trajectory over the last time I don’t know, probably a while. I mean it’s slowly a downward objective but it is I feel like getting to the point where it is hard to get people to open I’d say, subject lines of course are going to be … Creative subject lines are going to be the way for people to open for customers to open your emails. In terms of incentives, I would say that there’s definitely a fine line there, we don’t want to create a certain incentive where people or customers are just filling out these surveys and they’re not giving you really good data because they just want the incentive. So I’d say, maybe like what I’ve used in the past is maybe having a drawing for an Amazon gift card or something along those lines where if you fill out a survey then you’ll be automatically put into a drawing for an Amazon gift of 50 or a 100 dollars or something like that. So, it gives them an opportunity to … You want to be in that fine line there but not really go either way because ofcourse you want sound data but also you want to have these customers fill out the surveys and rates.
Paul Higgins: Yeah and Jean is there any particular time? From let’s say first day they purchase and let’s say a lot of people provide consulting services similar to yourself. So they’ve just a new consulting client, when is it the right time to get feedback from them about the service that you’re providing or as we’re talking there and the pain points etcetera.
Jean Ginzburg: Sure. I think it depends on the kind of product or service that you’re offering. So if you’re a business and you sell shoes, it might be fine to email your customer two days after they’ve received their pair of shoes, because at that point they’ve probably have tried them on and are excited about it. But if it’s more complex service, then it really depends, sometimes I engage with clients and have several months where we’re working on a specific project. So I would say at the end of that big project you probably would want to get their feedback since you’ve already completed it at that point. It depends on how these audiences that are listening to this podcast are actually structuring their services. Sometimes it’s just a one off meeting, right, maybe you’re doing just a one day strategic session with your client and so that, I think it’s appropriate to send them an email a couple of days later and say hi, what is your feedback been? How did you like the session? Is there anything I can be able to improve? So I think it depends.
Paul Higgins: But I think it’s really a good example of big projects in … When I worked at Coca Cola we had the top guns in which were basically eighteen pilots and after every critical mission they have a debrief. And so it’s called a no rank debrief and they do what went well on the mission and what could improve and it’s no ranks so it doesn’t matter if you’re a general or you’re the person putting the chalk under the wheel of applying, you get the opportunity to do that. So I think that works really well and just ask people even at the end of a podcast, always ask people you know, what did you really like about this process? And what can we do to improve in it? Those little increments I think can make a difference and it can help get this information through the journey where I think some people think it’s just, well I’ve said it and that’s it. I’ve come up with my ideal client and I need to ever go back and do it but I think with your process that’s can actually- It’s a constant learning, it’s not a one off.
Jean Ginzburg: Oh absolutely. This worksheet that I do with my clients, the one I’m going through right now, should be a living breathing document, it is not just a one off type of thing. It is something that- And again your clients as you learn more about them might actually change and so you might have to change your optics, some of the points in your ideal target market or your customer avatar worksheet so it’s not just a one and done. This is something we should all revisit at least once a quarter and if there’s no changes absolutely no problem, just review it, put it back away and then review it again in a quarter without any changes but there might be some changes. That also depends, you might have new products, new services, maybe you want to change your dynamic and your business as well, so there could be many reasons as to why this customer avatar worksheet might be ever flowing and ever changing.
Paul Higgins: Fantastic. So that’s one and two, what’s the third step?
Jean Ginzburg: The third step is pin pointing the sources of information, especially with Facebook advertising, one of the main ways is using the targeting functionality within Facebook that allows you to find this ideal target market and so we want to really understand what are for example the blogs that our target market is reading? Who are the gurus that they follow? What are the events they’re attending? Are they attending conferences or they’re attending Tony Robbins events or just maybe different events out there. What publications are they reading? Are they reading magazines? Are they reading publications? It’s also important because it also could identify which generation they’re part of. What social media channels are they using? Are they using Facebook? Are they using Snapchat? Are they using Instagram? Because again those are also some generational gaps there, because Facebook is more designed for people who are in their 30s and 40s because we kind of started this whole Facebook thing about 10 years ago when we were back in our typically in the 20s and now we’re 30s and 40s and then for Snapchat for example, those are kids who are in their early 20s or even sometimes teens so there’s definitely the social media channels will also help you identify approximately what kind of generational piece or the generation that your customer ideal target market is in.
Paul Higgins: Getting that information, is that something that someone like yourself, a consultant is best to do? Or can the business owner themselves get that information?
Jean Ginzburg: Of course the business owner themselves can get the information. I guess the next step would be like how do you use that information? And if you use know how to use that information absolutely then go ahead, take the next step, whatever that might be, maybe you want to do Facebook advertising, maybe you want to write some communication to your prospects. Yeah, absolutely. I guess the point is that yes if you can identify the data that’s fantastic but also you would need to know how to use that data. And that could be you as the business owner or you can hire an expert to do that for you.
Paul Higgins: Excellent. And is there another step in this growth process?
Jean Ginzburg: No. That’s pretty much the three steps. It’s first getting demographic data, then step two is psychographic data, so that would be pain points, challenges, values, scores and then step three is that source of information so blogs, events, publications, social media channels. So yeah, I would say those are the three main subsets I use with my clients when we’re working on the customer avatar worksheet and this is the data that we use for the communications and emails, the copy that we’re writing for. For email, for Facebook advertising. This is the videos that we are creating. We are using all of this information to create all of our marketing materials, whatever they might be.
Paul Higgins: Great. You’ve given lots of really good tips there that anything else that you constantly say clients if, I don’t know if some clients have either done it themselves or have had another agency in then you come in and you’ve got to pick up the ball and run with it. What are the sort of the common things that you say people are not quite getting right around these three solutions that you provided for picking your ideal client?
Jean Ginzburg: Oh well there are few things that have come up throughout this actual conversation. One is, they don’t have a customer avatar at all. They’ve never done a worksheet and they don’t know who their customer is. Second common mistake would be that they think that half of the world is their customer, and so we really need to work on niching down that customer into a much smaller group of people and really identifying who, some of the basic components.
What is the sources of information that they use? What are their challenges? And I’d say number three would be, they’re just not identifying their customer very well and they’re just having trouble with their marketing material so for example like Facebook ads, they’re not seeing the results that they want. I would say these are the common issues that I typically see when I am engaging with the clients.
Paul Higgins: What are the things that you … Other than the obvious, what are some of the things that you see and you can quickly analyse that there’s a problem with this before the owner does? Often we’re doing our best but we’re not experts. That’s why we’ve got someone like you on here because you do it everyday but if you’re looking at running a business this is just one element of them. What are some of the key other metrics or other information you look at to quickly audit whether they’ve got that message the market wrong or they haven’t got the copy right for their ideal client.
Jean Ginzburg: Well the first thing that I look is typically how clients a lot of times engage with me is that they have run Facebook ads and it has done very little for them, they’ve seen no results, they’ve seen very little engagement and that is a good point that tells me that there’s something wrong and typically it has to do with the ideal target market. The other thing would be like email marketing if they’re getting very low open rates or click-through rates, then that’s another key indicator to me that they probably just don’t have a very good customer avatar designed at this point. So, I’d say those are the couple of the points that I’ve zeroed away, which we’re like okay, we got to take a step back before we can write more emails and more Facebook copy and create more videos or for Facebook we need to really tone in on the customer avatar.
Paul Higgins: Yeah I think it’s often a bit of a balancing because I think the number one thing that you need to be successful leaving corporate to running own business is tenacity. So you’ve been through there, you had 11 years of that. I’ve had around seven but there’s a rollercoaster and it’s probably the hardest job in the world. It’s like creating your own asset and now running your business, it’s very rewarding but very difficult. But I find that that tenacity sometimes gropes in people’s marketing where they just continue to do the same thing. It’s like look, if it’s not working and the customer is not buying, you’ve got to change something. You’ve got to do something different. Do you see a lot of that in some of the clients that you work with?
Jean Ginzburg: Absolutely yeah. They have something and then I come in and audit it for them and then I put together a worksheet that I’m like, okay, well these are the points that we really need to focus on. It’s like why didn’t you say that in your email versus a lot of times it’s not even- I mean yes, you do need the expertise like myself, but a lot of times you can come in to a business and just really because you have fresh eyes, really see what are some of the issues that this business has. Not really necessarily being like an expert, yes we are all experts in whatever it is that we do, but also just seeing it from a first perspective that the business owner probably hasn’t seen in a long time because they’re just in the business in the weeds the whole time.
Paul Higgins: Yeah, and look, certainly no back in the Coke company because the Coke company from an ideal client point of view did probably more consumer research on their clients than any other company I know. I used to sort of now go and have workshops with Nike editors, Sony et cetera. Some of the big brands and Coke was sort of the cutting edge to that were relating the conversation, and we constantly got experts in to get us to look at and reframe it and then from there we moved to forum I’m sure in your corporate experience you probably did a similar thing. I think the key out of this is do that like if you’re still struggling and you can’t define your ideal client we’re going to have something great for you to start that journey, which Jean is going to leave you. But also if you’re still struggling, get someone in to do that and help you. I think it’s so critical because once you get this bit right, all the rest of it flows. Next your model right then sales and then finally you can build your team and all the same you had a really great sustainable business. But I think this ideal client phase is absolutely critical and that’s why we’ve got Jean in today. So Jean, look that’s been a fantastic summary. What are some examples where you can really bring this to life for our audience? What are some case studies you can go through?
Jean Ginzburg: Sure. Well, I can give away my- I should give away my book for free and some of the case studies that we talked about today are additional case studies, so you guys are absolutely free to get this free book, if you just go to jeanginzburg.com/blg, I have a whole chapter on the customer avatar and additionally I have another nine chapters I think. They talk all about job marketing, they talk about funnels and Facebook advertising and creating content. I have a bunch of case studies in there as well so I welcome everybody who’s listening to this to grab a free copy of my book, it’s in PDF format. So yeah, I hope you guys take advantage of that.
Paul Higgins: Well, brilliant. Well that’s very kind of you but if you just got one that you could leave us with.
Jean Ginzburg: Oh, sure.
Paul Higgins: Just one client that you’ve gone through this journey and now, what was the situation they’re in? What was the case solution you gave them and then what was the result of that?
Jean Ginzburg: Absolutely, so I would say the one I would want to use is a specialised skincare company that I have worked with in the past, and when I first started working with them they did not have an ideal target market or didn’t they didn’t identify their ideal target market at that point. The person who was the business owner had a pretty decent following in the past for his previous businesses. They were also in skincare so he was making pretty good sales but the problem is that he just didn’t know who these people were who were actually purchasing from him, so we just followed everything that we talked about here in this podcast episode. So we did a survey, I’ve had him get onto a bunch of calls we did probably 30 calls and really the first thing of course which we talked about was just I created some questions about when he was actually on the phone, what was the reason that these individuals purchased from him? Why did they like his products so much? Because he did have a following so these women who were using his skincare product were definitely very interested and were willing to definitely purchase this. It was a pretty high-end skincare product, so I had him get on the call, ask questions of his current customers. We sent out a survey via email and we got a lot of really good data and feedback from his current customers so we used that also to identify the ideal target market. We worked on the worksheet that I mentioned. So we identified that most of them were women, about 80% of them were women and usually at the age of 45 plus, and then we identified what were their pain points before they started his skincare products. So typically they were having issues with their skin, not just like fine lines but also things like psoriasis and other skin care problems and his products definitely addressed that. And then we also had the business owner ask his clients and his customers some of the points like what are the blogs that they read, who are the gurus that they follow, events that they attend. So, this was extremely helpful for us to craft our market message after we did all this. After we had him get on the phone and talk to these customers, after we created our customer avatar worksheet so very helpful and it really turned around the company because we were able to use all of these messaging and really hone in for example on Facebook ads and really target a certain demographic and a certain … Really use the functionality of Facebook targeting to get the right customers in the fold. So yeah absolutely it was a good example of how having these key points and key strategies really work in creating the customer avatar and growing your business at the same time.
Paul Higgins: Excellent. It’s a great example and just one quick question on that is, as far as … Is it best that the founder calls or is it better that someone independent? What’s your view or experience on that?
Jean Ginzburg: I’d say in my opinion, I think it’s best if the founder calls, especially if it’s a smaller company. We’re not talking about tens of millions of dollars and revenue. Most of the companies business owners that I’ve dealt with are maybe several million dollars so the business owner is still pretty involved in the business and I think that … Especially in this example, the business owner of the skincare company really was the face also of the company so most of the customers knew him, he’s on the website, he was on a lot of the marketing materials.
So also having that connection there. So he did all the calls and I would say it’s much better rapport and connection if the business owner does the calls plus the business owner can identify a lot of the nuances because they’re so engrossed in the business. So I would say the business owner.
Paul Higgins: Excellent. Great. I think that’s really good of us because I struggle with that one myself sometimes because I wonder will they give me the answer I want to hear or will they give me the real answer? But I think it also depends on the amount of touch points as well. So, for people in that community that sort of running masterminds etcetera, I think it’s good to get someone independent because you’re so close to that individual but I think in your case like the skincare example you gave I think it’s great that the founder, because it’s nothing better than the brand owner calls you and asks some good open feedback. So that’s great and I had a mastermind member the other day had the [inaudible 00:37:58] from zero at a luncheon and I said the most the impressive thing was just how personal he was about finding out how he can improve his product. Obviously a very successful product especially in Asia, Australia and New Zealand doing well on the U.S but he was just so passionate about what do you like? What don’t you like? What can we do fix it? And I think that’s brilliant when the owner is that passionate about the end solution. So it’s being brilliant having you on today. As you’ve said you’ve kindly giving us a free copy of your book so if I go to jeanginzburg.com/blg I’ll get the PDF.
Jean Ginzburg: Yeah.
Paul Higgins: We also have the links and comments that you mentioned. We’ll also havethose in the show notes where people can find you through there. What’s some parting advice you’ve got for our people of BLG community that’s listening to this podcast?
Jean Ginzburg: Absolutely. I’d say lifelong loading is usually my parting advice for any podcast speaking engagements I’ve done. I think it’s important to always continue on learning, reading books, going through digital courses, because no matter how old we are, there’s always things that we don’t know and being an entrepreneur- I think one of the qualities of being an entrepreneur is that you always to continue on learning.
Paul Higgins: Excellent. If you like this content from Jean today and have certainly got huge amount of value from it and you’d like access to more content like this and also a really supportive community of corporate escapees building their dream business, then just go to buildlivegive.com and we will bring you in, support you and as Jean and I mentioned it, it’s a brilliant journey but it’s certainly [inaudible 00:39:55] and it’s certainly [inaudible 00:39:55] if you’re doing it alone. So if you want to join a great community, just go to buildlivegive.com.
Jean I’d love to thank you for being on the BLG experts today and I really appreciate your knowledge that you shared and also your experiences and I hope to have lots of our community come in and ask you further around they can develop their ideal client.
Jean Ginzburg: Absolutely. It was such a pleasure and an honour to be here today and I hope that your audiences, everybody listening to this episode got some good information.
Paul Higgins: Excellent, great. Thanks a lot Jean.
Jean Ginzburg: Thank you.
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